Abortion rights Links

by Nora Thu Feb 07, 2008 06:23 noorazao at hotmail dot com Malaysia 00-60125394924

That religious priests from any religion, usually still dominated by male-hierarchy elite, can tell us what women should do with their bodies and how to behave, in accordance to what a male wants and desires, is beyond comprehension and rationality. Especially in modern times; such traditionalism is outdated and primitive. Not all traditions need to be preserved if in conflict with progressive universal and modern laws especially within human rights context in a globalized world. Besides, the male who impregnate a female is not being hold responsible for constructing that condition in the first place. But instead females are punished by male constructed religious politics, instead of it being a personal choice. Just as religion should not go beyond the personal sphere, about personal enlightenment and self-discovery journey. Not about politics especially when dominated by male-elite hierarchy.

by pre-menstrual tension Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:54

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/81988

Wouldn't it be great if the pope and bishops had periods- oh yes! funding for hospitals, breast-feeding
support , questioning governments who fund huge military parades instead of basic healthcare infrasturcture.
I can see the priests at the barricades shouting for women and children's rights.

The Irish State is legally obliged to provide the full range of pregnancy services to Irish women, but
the current minister for health seems intent on running them down and avoiding the issue of what happens
when a pre-consent kid gets pregnant and ends up in court without the necessary medical support
and continuity of care that is her right (post-medical induction).

by C Murray Mon Feb 18, 2008 19:19

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0218/abortion.html

There is no statement, as yet from Amnesty in Ireland, as to the adopted position
of the organisation in relation to the RC debacle.(Amnesty Ireland took an opt-out
and does not deal with the issue of the human right to abortion)

The Link to Amnesty Northern Ireland is:- http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?categoryID=314

Meanwhile within the Larger Amnesty Community, a break-off section has been sending
memos looking for support for the RC position on right to life issues,one of which
was forwarded to groups here and made it onto a mailing list.

by Tommy Tue Feb 19, 2008 01:39

Good to hear that Amnesty in Eire and NI have to debate this issue among their members. I've noticed a tendency for some western-based aid and campaigning groups to wish to apply their vanguard thinking on sexuality and relativist ethics to the situation in societies where culture is not attuned to such thinking. Of course such vanguard thinking is also not attuned to the mores of so many people in the western societies themselves.

by C Murray Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:07

There is a debate needed , many of the women who discuss the issue of need for abortion;
and indeed lead on it are those that are based in countries such as South america and
Africa. Indeed in Colombia the Roa case brought the issue of enforced IVF treatment
into the public domain and into conversations on reproductive rights. I live quite near a
private IVF clinic and the traffic is something else. A lot of Irish and non-national women
are taking the option of aided reproduction, whilst at one and the same time the supports
for women and couples to raise children is at an incredibly low level, with a health service
and maternity system that cannot impart full information to women in need of medical abortion
and where continuity of care issues in post-abortion scenarios are neglected because it
is something that is not discussed.

The issue of abortion for pre-consent children was highlighted in the 'D' case,
personally I make no apology for my support of abortion rights for women and girls
and I would only hope that any debate that would occur between the two branches
of Amnesty would seek the input of our NGO's and Human Rights Groups who
have the necessary expertise in advocacy- such as Doctors for Choice/the IFPA/safe and
legal in Ireland and Choice Ireland. not to mention the individuals who have spoken on the issue including Deirdre De Barra.
I would also sincerely hope that Amnesty in Ireland would look
at the difference between Canonical law and international human Rights legislation too.

by Chris Murray Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:18

Unwonted interferences in Electoral Processes throughout RC Countires
We may only be grateful that we are not facing an election in Ireland, though the current Taoiseach
seems to have set 2009 (post Europe and and local elections) as his benchmark for change.
It would be entirely simplistic to say that abortion rights top the agenda of the governments
that are faced with campaigns of attrition and erosion based in ongoing abortion rows, they are
faced instead with catalogues of failed policy in basic rights issues that have led to abortion
and family structure becoming the locus of negative campaign. Mostly it's economic issues
that drive fear: lack of affordable housing, health care centred in profit and ongoing war.
The image is of the Catholic 'Family' March in Madrid which occured 3 months before the
March 9th elections and delineates the overt interference of Conservative Catholicism in
the election process, an interference which has had deeply negative repurcussions in
Nicaragua, Poland and will contiue to do so in Italy.
The Spanish issue is delineated in these articles:-

http://www.indypendent.org/2008/02/22/church-vs-state-m...tions
(Church Vs State Militant Catholic attempt to sway Spanish elections, by Hazel Healy)

Jose Manuel Vidal contextualises the economic issues in relation to Zapatero's economic
roadmap and the established Catholic Church In Spain. Vidal can be accessed through
Voltaire.net and El Mundo. The economic issues leading to tension in church V state
cannot be underestimated in a scenario where both seem willing to abuse human
rights .

The Alicia Tysiac case which dominated the abortion row in the collapse of the tripartite
Polish regime;* and led to the ushering in of Tusk ,is discussed on the Women and
Fundamentalisms site:- http://www.whrnet.org/fundamentalisms/

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/79311
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86125
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86281

The situation in Nicaragua and In Poland were exemplars of an overt right wing movement
to interfere in the issues of privacy and recognition of rights to abortion in cases where
the mother's life was at risk. In Nicaragua the 'mother' in question was a nine year old
rape victim whose small body was not capable of continuing a pregancy that had been the
result of the violation of her childhood by an older man. The women who procured for her
one of the last legal abortions in that country have all been threatened with legal
process on the crime of ommission, by a coalition who entitle themselves a human
rights advocacy group.

I am not appendeing my own opinion here in detail, but suffice it to say that the view
of the 'mother ' and the 'family' within the Church view of abortion and right to life issues
seems necessarily to suppose that women reproduce only within a certain narrowly
defined set of limits which is wholly unrelated to the reality of experience of girls and
women whose reproductive ability can start at 9-11 years old ;and in no way
accepts the basic human right of privacy and bodily integrity of the very young.

Start talking about the child's right to health, safety and education cos as far as I can see
both the church and state are failing in that and that is why people are angry and betrayed.

Madrid Protest

by C Murray Sat Feb 23, 2008 17:58

The issue of school board adherence to RSE programmes has quite a colourful history
in this state. At inception of the programmes ten and more years ago, organised groups
of Catholic Parents took on management committees to prevent the discussion of
sex education for children, including the 'Stay Safe' programme , which is a graded
age appropriate set of classes on issues of safety and fear. Kid's learn to vocalise
if they are uncomfortable with certain forms of physical contact and also learn that they
can speak to people who will help them. The resistance to that state school module was
based in the fact that issues of sexuality were inappropriate for classroom learning
and a RC ethos and approach to sex education was best left within the family unit.

The programme is now taught in all state schools, with problems amongst some
of the Private boys schools who have dropped the programme preferring the focus to
be on academic targets. (I.T covered the private schools issue)

There is definitely a slide to a more fundamental approach within the reign of the
current pope who exhibits all the stylings of the anti-modernists who reigned just
pre- and post Mussolini.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/

Richard Garner- education editor.

Naming things for what they are is generally how issues and approach to rights
are intelligently discussed. I do not know of any parents (both state and private school
sector) who are opposed to their kids having age appropriate sex education and
access to contraceptive information if and when they require it.

by Nora Sat Feb 23, 2008 22:48

I remember rebelling against my sexual repression through my youthful life by such dogmatic and politicized rules and laws in what is supposed to be within my private life and personal/free will choice! Strange that the religious (male-dominanted ) hierarchy finally recognize that it's a private matter. But sex do come with social complications sometimes especially on health matters including on unwanted pregnancy, and hence, the need for sex education to vulnerable youths in schools. Unfortunately as usual the sexually repressed hierarchy prefer to politicize such a private issue.

by C Murray Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:46

The House of Commons is investigating the directions to RC schools in Britain
to roll back on rights to children, which include the dropping of the PHSE Programmes
and the rights of children within the education system to sex education, or full knowledge
round issues of personal health and safety. This was attached as link to Yesterday's
article 'Abortion Story', which has been embedded for some reason into an older
story 'Abortion Right's Links'.

The issue of rights to education and knowledge that is presented in an unbiased
way to kids has nothing whatever to do with the title of the article at the top of this
page which, because it has been sloppily embedded has thrown the whole piece
off. Editorially, if the decision had been made to unite the two pieces under one
title then the older story should have been included within the body of the newer.

and not the other way round.

by link Wed Mar 19, 2008 09:25

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0318/abortion.html

the cute hoors at FF who manage to think abortion is something they can avoid
legislating for and instructing their TD's 'not to have an opinion on' are in my humble
opinion not the ones to deal with the human rights aspects of de-criminalisation.

afterall its taken 16 years to deal with 'X'

and they abused 'D' through the courts as a result of legislation (section 8) to kow-tow the monied
hierarchy of the church. btw a 90 day limit will not wash, it does not advocate of some
diagnosed medical conditions nor does it allow for lte term induction in privacy and to allow grief.

better start talking to rights groups , especially about cancers and foetal anomalies.

http://www.safeandlegal.blogspot.com
http://www.choiceireland.blogspot.com

Maybe someday people will get that grief and privacy are nothing to do with
people who feel that it is beholden on them to interefere and politicise on privacy
issues.

by Ben Wed Mar 19, 2008 13:23

"a 90 day limit will not wash, it does not advocate of some diagnosed medical conditions nor does it
allow for late term induction in privacy and to allow grief."

Good grief - you mean abortion involves grief? But grief can have long term psychological and
physical implications.
This is the first time I've seen pro-choice tell us that abortion has serious consequences.
What else have we not been told?

by C. Wed Mar 19, 2008 13:33

some of us have had medical inductions, they are quite common in Irish maternity hospitals.
They happen in the event of foetal distress- and some result in live births.

A request for a medical induction or a DR suggesting a medical induction is to me, a
privacy issue- such as 'D' was entitled to. she wanted to have her baby as naturally as
possible and grieve the infants death. to obtain that right she had to leave the jurisdiction
and go to the UK.

thats an abuse of human rights.

it took the govt many years to allow still births the right to funeral and birth certificate
and infant death is not something the above commentator understands, though he would
possibly vote against abortion rights in his high flown ignorance of pregnancy,
birth and death issues.

cultivated ignorance on issues of female rights and sexuality.