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More right wing Shinner stuff
 national |
anti-capitalism |
news report
 Friday December 05, 2003 13:03 by matt
Martin Ferris budget speech Speaking during the debate on the Budget, the Sinn Féin spokesperson on Natural Resources, attacked those who claimed there is no alternatives to current economic thinking. As an example of this, he pointed to the scandalous give away of Irish oil and gas reserves, with the massive loss in revenue which that entails.
Deputy Ferris said: "One thing that is regularly thrown at anyone who advocates radical alternatives to current economic policies is that we do not present any other coherent means of financing a different approach. I do not accept that there are no alternatives, nor that the revenue to finance them could not be found.
"The Sinn Féin pre-Budget submission details some of these, but I would like to cite one particular example and it is an area that has once again come under some scrutiny in recent weeks. That is, the control and taxation regime that governs our natural resources. Or rather, and to be more specific, the lack of control and taxation over our oil and gas reserves. It is my contention that if the State exercised its proper role on behalf of the people in that sector, that oil and gas revenue could play a major part in financing future progressive developments.
"We have heard Minister McCreevy explain why even minimal changes to the taxation regime such as broadening the 20% tax band to exclude more of the lower paid, was not possible at the present time. And yet his party has proven itself in the past to be more than capable of introducing tax benefits for others which have been far more radical and costly in terms of lost revenue. The terms governing the exploitation of our natural resources - and exploitation is indeed what it should be described as - are a good case in point.
"It has long been known that there is massive potential in the oil and gas that lies beneath Irish waters. When that first became a major issue in the mid 1970s Sinn Féin was one of those groups which argued that the reserves ought to be taken under state control in the interests of the Irish people as a whole. Instead of this, and instead of the state proactively seeking to develop what was there, and investing the necessary finance and skills, they were content to auction them off to multi-national corporations. While initially there may have
been some attempt to maintain the public interest, gradually over the years the terms and conditions have been further eroded to the extent that we now have almost no real stake in what lies off our shores.
"Some of the major changes introduced to the benefit of the corporations have been as follows; In 1987 the then Minister for Energy the famous Ray Burke, decided to do away with royalties; In 1992 Finance Minister, and current Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, reduced the tax on oil finds to 25%, the lowest in the world. Not only that but the companies can even write that off; Also in 1992, frontier licences were introduced which mean that oil companies can sit on areas of likely reserves for up to 20 years
"Ever since then, when these terms have been challenged, successive Ministers have claimed that they are necessary to encourage the development of the oil and gas sector. And yet the opposite had taken place and the number of exploratory drills declined after 1987. Right up until the present time when I have asked questions regarding these terms, and the likely benefits to accrue from recent finds such as that at the Dooish Well off Donegal, I am told the same thing.
"Well, where is the proof that all these great benefits, such as those referred to in this House by An Taoiseach two weeks ago, will come on stream? Does the state even know what is there or what the exploration companies themselves know lies in the sectors under their control. Because it has been admitted that the state actually has no means of independently verifying what the likes of Shell tell them.
"This is important because when the Corrib field was discovered in 1996, Irish rig workers knew that the find was massive. This was confirmed by a report by WoodMacKenzie which claimed that the field could contain up to seven trillion cubic feet of gas. At current prices this is worth €21 Billion. The Dooish reserve has been estimated to be worth 10 Billion. How far would even a minority share of this go to solving some of the fiscal problems cited by this Government as an excuse for imposing cuts on those least well able to bear them?
"Indeed we do not have to speculate because we have the example of Norway which by maintaining some control over its natural mineral resources has been able to channel the benefits into economic growth and prosperity for its own people and not allow it to be sat on by unscrupulous corporations like Shell.
"Last year alone the Norwegian Government earned €34 Billion from the state oil company Statoil. And that is not even to take into account the huge revenues it earns from the multi-nationals, which far from refusing to operate in Norwegian waters because of high tax rates - as is claimed here - are quite happy to pay the price for access to what is not called black gold for nothing.
"If this state had done what the Norwegians had done and put in place the proper structures and taxation and royalties scheme, we would be in a far stronger position and wouldn‚t have to be tinkering around the margins of direct and indirect tax rates and social welfare payments for those who can least afford it.
"I, along with every other Deputy here has thousands of constituents who have to count every Euro and cent in order to budget for their own and their families future. And yet, any improvement they ever see is in that range, one Euro here, 5 Euros there. And they are expected to be grateful for that, even in the knowledge that what is given in the pension or tax credits will be more than taken back in price rises, increases in payments for public services, and a whole range of new taxes including service charges.
"And yet the Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrat Government that will expect people to be grateful, or to put up and shut up when things begin to bite, are only too happy to dispense massive gifts to their rich friends. The sort of friends like the President of Shell who can summon the Taoiseach and senior Ministers to meetings to threaten that they won't proceed with the Corrib Gas development unless the Government introduces new legislation to take them outside of the planning process.
"And remember that besides rejecting the pipeline planning application on environmental grounds, one of the authors of the report, Kevin Moore also pointed to the lack of economic benefits for the region. But I suppose if the proposed Critical Infrastructure Bill that Shell is seeking is passed, then they will no longer have to worry about the objections of those who are well aware of what they are at.
"To conclude, I make no apologies for going outside the limits of what is contained in the Budget. I do not accept that the current economic thinking which dominates this Government has, or even wants to, explore other means of not only balancing the State‚s books, but actually bringing in the kind of revenue that would ensure that all of our people could have a prosperous and secure future. And that that future will no longer be auctioned off to the kind of people whose only contribution to the Irish economy probably takes place at the Galway Races." ENDS
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Comments (60 of 60)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60How is this right wing?? Thinking of the welfare of the entire country rather than the pockets of corrupt politicians and the super rich. Is that what right wing is? Well then call me Ariel Sharon!!
The titlle matt used was ironic.
Nil an stuff seo ar an laimh dheis. Agus call will on "stuff" eile?
Are you smoking shit Liam.????
Here we have more evidence of Sinn Fein's turn to the right. A blatant endorsement of Thatcherite policies, why he didn't even call for the nationalisation of mines and the setting up of Workers Soviets in all major towns. By his silence, he stands condemned as a class traitor and signifies assent for privatisation.
The Socialist Worker, turning reality on its head every fortnight.
It's very easy to talk and give speeches but SF have shown time and time again when in power they implements cuts, closures and impose double taxation.
Could someone from SF please deal with these issues.
- Voting for bin tax in Sligo
- Mark Daly's support for bin tax and his continued canditature for SF in the local elections
- the fact that a SF cllr in Dublin mysteriously went missing on cruciual vote on bin tax and another was 'ill'. Their votes would have meant that cllrs voted down bin tax and the council would be dissolved.
- The term time workers dispute where Martin McGuiness forced school term time workers out onto the doel for the summer months
- SF's support for the Hayes report in Fermanagh. Hayes called for the closure of Omagh Hospital and the retention of Enniskillen hospital
- Their taking of massive donations off Coke in return for Ann Speed's support of Coke in UCD referendum.
Whenever they have had the chance SF have shown themselves to be at best the same as the Labour Party on social issues.
Surely that if nothing else ought to qualify Mr Ferris for some respect from people like you who do nothing else. By the way, most of your allegations are false and absurd. BTW, Sinn Féin officially supports the Coke Boycott.
Would someone from the SP answer the following:
Why do the SP support the right of the Orange Order to march down the Garvaghy Road?
Why do the SP support the right of the Orange Order to march down the Ormeau Road?
Why did the SP support a British Army recruiting stall in QUBSU?
Why did the SP vote against naming a bursary after Pat Finucane in QUBSU?
Why did the SP vote for naming a bursary after loyalist Edgar Graham in QUBSU?
Why did the SP spread scare stories to disrupt direct action against the war, at Shannon Airport?
Why did the SP support the Airport Police over anti war activists at Shannon?
Why did Joe higgins call GNAW Virtual Warriors at the very time they were being arrested?
Why did the SP refuse to support an anti war lobby of the ICTU conference?
Why did the SP praise the restraint of the cops at Evian but ignore the incident on the bridge?
Why wont the SP/CWI give John Throne the right to appeal his expulsion?
"Unlike Gothenburg and Genoa, where the capitalist state tried to take the movement on by intimidation and violent repression, the strategy they employed for Geneva and Evian was somewhat different, a backhanded recognition that the movement is here to stay. On this occasion the main blockade and demonstration in Geneva was totally unimpeded by the state. Likewise the French and Swiss border guards, immigration control and customs officers were nowhere to be seen when the mass demonstrations of over 100,000 converged on the border. "
Michael O'Brien The Voice June 2003
http://www.geocities.com/socialistparty/paper2003/0306Evian.htm
No mention at all of the attack on oeaceful activists on the bridge. It would not do to portray the Police in a bad light.
Look Magneto stop your trolling and answer the question that have been asked of you on this thread
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=62483&search_text=starry%20plough
You have refused to do so, I have answered all the questions and refuted all the mud you slung at me.
I wont go into detail here because peole can see the other thread. But you have continually REFUSED to justify Labour's position on Bin Tax, Social Partnership, Boycotting Shannon, USI and their support for extra cops and Army when in government.
I answered your questions on the other thread and told you that you could have the last word. Your lies dont work.
Are you saying that the piece above wasnt by O Brien? All people have to do is follow the link. To access past SP postings about Shannon, QUBSU etc all people have to do is use the Indy Search facility.
You are just exposing yourself as a pathological liar.
I hope that one day you wil be rescued from the SP/CWI Cult and restored to sanity. Peace be with you.
"Could someone from SF please deal with these issues."
They have. Many times. Much like the SP has dealt with loads of the issues raised by Magneto; many times.
Much like the questions against SF, some of the questions against the SP are false and based on lies.
You're not exposing the SP or SF by asking questions like that.They've dealt with them. In fact, I've read their defences of it so many times I think I could work as a SF Doctor of Spin or an SP Exposer of Lies.
I would also point out that while it is very easy to talk and give speeches, it's hard to do it in Leinster House because you need votes to get in there and with the exception of the SP and SF, none of the rest have what it takes.
I'm not saying parties shouldn't be criticised, SF deserved the criticism it got around Coke for example, though the recent decision by the party's Ard Comhairle to officially support the boycott suggests the issue has been resolved within the party, and on the right side.
But the insistence on going over old ground again and again and again is so incredibly childish that it is embarassing to recommend to friends and colleagues to check out Indymedia for information.
You have not answered the questions on the other thread. People shoudl folow the links and see exactly how he repeatedly refused to answer.
If people want to see the real positions of the SP they should visit the SP site at www.socialistparty.net
No stop calling me a liar and answer the questions.
"Community control of the Gardaí to ensure they work with and implement the policing priorities advocated by the communities "
From the SP Manifesto.
Nothing about smashing the police, just community control. Actually there nothing at all about smashing the State in the SP Manifesto. A rather Reformist Document, all in all.
Look up pops Magneto with a list of lies and misrepresentations about... nothing to do with the subject of this thread at all. A piece of Grade A trolling, or maybe Grade B given how obvious he is.
For instance, all of the allegations about QUBSU don't even have the benefit of being based on distorted half-truths. They were invented by some idiot in Belfast who posted them here and they then seemingly gained urban myth status. The problem is that none of them actually happened. Cue more anonymous trolling about how I am "revising" history. I'm not. I'm telling the truth.
But what's the point in helping a troll further disrupt a thread?
I could respond with a limitless list of questions about the Labour Party from the trivial (admitting right wing FIne Gael councillors) to the important (voting for bin charges all around the country) to the fundamental (the fact that Labour are in favour of privatisation and that they never, ever, support workers in struggle). But that would just be helping Magneto cause more disruption.
Arial forgot two of the most important and revealing recent Sinn Fein actions.
- Helped introduce privatisation to schools and hospitals in the North.
- Cringed before George Bush before and during the war on Iraq, including shaking his hand as the bombs fell.
firstly, we see yet again that all SF is doing is trying to be a De Velera style FF, which is something that myself and the vast majority of Ogra FFers would want in our own party.
they fully embrace capitalism, but on the old FF line of "for the good of the nation, not for the good of the individual". its a pity that my party FF has strained quite far from this, but if you go to FF ogras forum you will see the vast majority of FF youth are pro Dev, pro Social Democrat. there will be sweeping change whenever Bertie gets the boot and either Cowen or Martin come in.
and then the SWP, so ultra scared of any party that could move in on their turf of targetting and brainwashing young peole with their silly utopian rubbish, they go and have a go at SF. we you see, SF have again gone down the FF road and dont have an official leaning left/right, except for right wing nationalism. FF have a constitution, be you left/centre/right wing, as long as you obey the constitution you are allowed in.
Jonah is making sense. I've been involved in some of these kind of exchanges in the past. Who started it on this occasion doesnt matter. But you might both reflect on how this particular scrap started from a report on the student protest against cuts elsewhere.
Now, you both oppose the cuts. Unite on that. The SP, no matter how revolutionary cannot defeat the cuts on its own. The LY no matter how reformist (despite some sound members) has a role to play in the campaign against the cuts. The SP won the position of Welfare Officer in UCD but the LP won the position of President in UCD, beating the SP candidate.
Neither can deny that the other has a mandate from Students.
Real and genuine community control of the police force is impossible under capitalism. The state and the cops are ultimately there to implement class rule. If the police force were under real community control not like the 'partnerships' put forward by the Labour Party in effect they would not be a capitalist force. What effectivly community control means is that we want a workers police force and a workers army that would be unable to act to smash strikes and attack the community.
The Labour Party is not even reformist these days. Magneto you yourself acknowledge this and you rule out revolution as 'childish' (see other thread).
Labour when in power increased spending on the Police and the Army. Their ministers also took salutes from the Army and Garda at official ceremonies and parades. The ALbour Party did not do one thing to weaken the apparatus of the capitalist state while in power. Labour support the capitalist cops. While the cops were on the streets of West Dublin batoning working people away from bin lorries the Labour Party were in the media condemning the bin tax protesters and calling for them to lift the protests and pay the bin tax. Now how do you justify that.
Nopw Magneto ANSWER the questions raised on the other thread. Justify your parties position on Shannon, the state, Bin Tax, Partnership, Nice, the USI...
"The SP won the position of Welfare Officer in UCD..."
Just a quick clarification, The SP won the position of Education Officer not welfare. Welfare was won by FF in an uncontested election.
I'd agree with Pat, trolling is a waste of time. these lies and slurs that everyone knows is not true or at best an urban myth are wrecking indymedia.
I'd also say to Magneto that you could well be putting in jeopardy the relationship that the SP have towards the LP in USI and UCD by simply stirring your shite
You are the one who should justify your party attitude on Shannon. I disdagree with the majority Labour view. I with other LY members was at the fence, face to face with the Gardai and Airport Police while Joe Higgins was calling us Virtual Warriors.
Your manifesto says nothing about getting rid of the present police, none of your manifesto would necessitate smashing the state.
I oppose Social Partnership as do some others in the LP. But the majority of workers have always endorsed the deals. Anyway if the SP ever got power, Unions would become an arm of the State and strikes would be banned. Or so your comrades say on the SY Discussion Board.
You think that SF are trying to emulate Dev, mmm? Methinks SF will do to your sorry bunch what Dev did to the old SF in 1926. SF are now in the position to revive the Irish Revolution after decades of FF corruption and repression of republicans.
thanks for the correction. but they should both stop. the constant attacks on labour by the sp must also be putting a working relationship at risk. the lp were attacked because their leaflet at an education cuts protest only mentioned education. thats also trolling.
This Shane Horan is a right wing bastard.
He sepent the past two weeks going around putting up posters saying those who did not pay bin tax were 'fucking scrounging bastards'. He covered the SP noticeboard, SP posters, SU posters and 'Free Dave Murphy' posters with them. he has also printed up posters slagging off the Green Party and has been witnessed ripping down anti war, global action and boycott Coke posters.
I hear that there has been an official complaint been submitted to the Registrar and the guy in charge of societies against him and the FF UCD branch. It looks as though the guy in charge of societies has viewed the posters to be offensive and insulting which are in violation of the 'Dignity and respect' code in UCD. the issue will probably be brought to the Registrar, it could see FF being fined or Shane Horan being disciplined.
FF endorsed the posters, while he ws putting up the pro bin tax ones he did so with committee members of FF and along with posters advertising FF meetings
Pat you are dead right about the trolliung it just has to stop. I am sick and tired of these endless dogmatic 'polemics' against the SP, SF and Labour.
But there is a fine line between genuine critisism and trolling. I think that it would have been right to raise critisisms about the Lp leaflet on education. Indymedia needs to be a forum for discussion, I suppose it is the way in which you bring these issues up.
you will never emulate FF because you havent even a plan of unification, or any economic policies.
and the "SF" you are member of are certainly not the same SF back in 1926, would the real SF be involved in government with PIRA decommissioning?
No.
thats why FF was created, created in order to reform the esetablishment and to create a 26 county republic, something that would of never have happened under FG rule. we also realised about 50 years earlier thatn you that the IRA would eventually be the divider of the communitites of the island, that physical force was not an option anymore. the only way forward was to allow protestants to rediscover there republican past themselves in their own time, with us acting as a medium between the 2 communities. the demise of the SDLP was an awful shame, the only nationalist party to get cross community support, based on the ideals of the united Irishmen,
you will never get cross community support, and when we organise North in the coming year, we will demolish you, and let the voice of true constitutional republicanism come thru.
Not your sham.
Shane, we all knwo the FF have economic policies. They and you support bin tax, hospital closures, cuts in education, cuts in social welfare alongside tax amnesties for crooks, tax breaks for big business/land speculators and corruption in the local councils.
How do you think that working class protestants will want to ever be part of a country in which FF are in government. You have nothing to offer but more poverty, corruption and attacks on the working class. FF wil NEVER get a united Ireland or lasting peace in Ireland.
If that is true about you in UCD attacking th left wings right to organise and victimising students I hope they thow the book at you. At least if they don't expel you I hope it causes so much embarrasment for FF in UCd that your career is over.
By the way Shane, the SDLP never had cross community support. On the whole SDLP voters were largely Catholic. FF will not get cross community support, they cannot appeal to working class Protestants or working class Catholics.
Against violence too I suppose? Except when it came to murdering your old friends and locking them up in the Curragh and Portlaoise. Or handing over tens of thousands of our children to be raped by priests and brothers. Funny way too FF had of winning Protestant support. Was that why they crawled to the bishops? As for your belief that FF will defeat Sinn Féin in the 6 Counties, come on!! You proved how good you were with your sad TDs running around with even sadder Stoops for the last month. And pampered little boys like Mackin thinking they could win an election from the Crown Bar. If there's burying to be done, I think you will find that it will be a different corpse.
firstly, i went down to shannon during the summer to protest. go on, look me up as a member on irish anti war.
secondly, i am good friends with a representative of the Green Party, and i helped him put up those green party posters, which were designed by the Green party, you liars. havent you seen them being used to advertise the Green party conference last week?
thirdly, i have never EVER ripped down anti war, anti globalistaion posters, because i am ANTI WAR ANTI GLOBALISATION. globalistaion is destroying this country and our culture, something you socialsits down care about with your link back up with britain folly.and i didnt rip down any Coke posters.
fourthly, those posters where made by me, and unknown to FF. they are not FF posters, Did u see any FF logo on it???!!!!!
if i had brought it before FF committee ( i have only ever gone to 1 FF event ever, the trip North to meet the PUP) i would of been totally refused.
so , you liars, who ever you are, if you try to bring me down, i'm going to send you all down with me with these Lies and false accusations.
and yeh,on the subject of globalisation,
socalism is the greatest friend it could ever have.international socialism would bring down worldwide ddestruction of language,
religions and cultures because they dont CONFORM to socialism.
just like what the British did to us. and you socialists want us to join back up with them???????
and by the way, some of the founding fathers of the SDLP and the civil rights movement were protestant,and HAVE attracted protestant votes.
You did poster over and rip down posters from the SP, the SU and the 'Free David Murphy' campaign. They were deemed to be against the 'dignity and respect' policy of the college as it was clearly aimed at a particular student. The authorities have pledged to take action with whoever is deemed responsible whether it is you or the KBC. Expect to hear about it in January.
I am rejoicing that your career in FF will be dealt a blow regardless of what happens. Greg and co are not pleased when one of their first year underlings who does not know how things work in UCD goes and gets his society into trouble and annoys the left without any good reason just because of some childish urge to act the prick.
Seems like someone has gotten to your syntax first!! ..... apologies, I forgot you were in UCD.
criticising a Labour leaflet given out at an education cuts protest because it only mentioned education cuts is imho trolling. at some anti-war demos , the SP gave out leaflets which only mentioned the war, to criticise them for this and say that they should have mentioned half a dozen other campaigns would have been trolling.
The civil rights movement did attract support from Protestants but the SDLP did not have any appeal to Protestants. Over 95% of those that voted SDLP were catholic. It was people in the SDLP like Hume that turned the civil rights movement down the sectarian route by explicitly saying he was fighting for Catholic rights and not rights of working class protestants also. He also refused to defend through weapons the working class cathlic areas and some protestant working class areas with a workers defence force that woul dbe linked to the Trade union movement and be accountable to the community.
AS for globalisation. You are talking shite. Yes socialsits want to see a world economy but one that is democratically planned and run in the interests of all working and oppressed people as well as ethnic minorities. The fact is that it is the unfettered neo liberalism that is inevitable under capitalism that is ruining culture and the environment. FF stand over this system and implement it in Ireland. Under Socialism, the economy will be democratically planned so if people want to speak their own language in a particular industry they can, if people want the media and products in a particular language they can have it. under capitalism we will only get those languages that are economically viable.
Sinn Feins policy is leftwing. But it needs to say that it will follow through with them in a leftwing government led by Sinn Fein. This means that it will not go into government with FF, FG or PD.If it does it policy and program is as meaningless as that of the Labour Party who had nearly as nice policies and programs. These as we all know were ditched as soon as they smelled the tyres of a ministerial merc. The Left Wing of Sinn Fein should propose in the next Ard Fheis a resolution saying no to coalition.No maybes a clear no. They will con themselvesa nd their supporters if they swallow a few token sops to the poor and go into coalition.
The Greens will persuade themselves that a few windmills is the breakthrough when they sell out.Look at how happy the German Greens were to support Imperialist war once they got their Merc.
Coalition is about administrating injustice. Deciding which hospital to shut, where to cut Community Employment. Socialism is about ending the unjust system based on Capitalism.
To stay with its revolutionary roots Sinn Fein has to avoid the corruption of the illusion of power that destroyed the early FF and Clan na Phoblachta. Look at the Sticks in their various incarnations.
Though not in Sinn Fein, I hope that the Left wins out against the so-called pragmatists who hope to warm the seat of a merc.
I've had a look at the other thread. I don't think the initial post critisising Labour was necessarily trolling. I think the point being made was that Labour did not link the fight against cuts in with the wider agenda of cuts that the govt are implementing. I think this is a legitimate criticism.
BTW
Shane of Ógra, you are a definite troll. We don't want this shite on this site anymore please bugger off or post genuine stuff. If that is true about you ripping down posters and calling anti bin tax protesters 'sponger bastards' or whatever you are a disgrace.
from now on when i see a SP leaflet that doesnt mention every injustice under the sun, i will condemn them as reformists.
lies again. i did poster over a few SP posters, but i DID NOT poster over SU over "Free David Murphy" ones. that is what i admit.
this was an attack on the SP, which i dont deny, but not on an individual!!!!!! why would i target one person who is just partaking in there party when i can actively protest against the party as a whole. this was a personal PROTEST, propaganda if you will, and i know my "political career" will not be dealt a blow because firstly i dont care about a "political career", and also because it had nothing to do with FF!!!!!!!!
as much as the SP will try to make up lies about me, i will stand up for myself.
i will turn these lies around on you, i have a Green party representative to officially state that i helped the poutting up of their posters,
so i will send the SP down for spreading lies about me.
Now THATS an attack on a sudent of UCD.
which I found to be thought provoking and timely. There was markedly little snotty nose, and some interesting areas of concern appear to being raised.
The Oireachtas have moved a minister's statement perhaps of reader interest (dec. 5 2002) it was at http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2B955252
Oh yes. hmmm. Thanks Matt, now I'll go read the comments and maybe join in the surely riviting debate.
and another thing, if i had known it was 'illegal' to poster over posters in UCD, i certainly would not of done it. and the 'ripping down' accusation is total lies and nonsense.
theres plenty of space in UCD to poster, so why would i rip idown posters!!!!!!!
things have been grossly exaggerated, and the sooner this is realised and the lies settle down about me,the better.
Postering over other people's posters is very bad, ripping them down is very bad as well, if you don't like them you could always deface them instead.
Now "the hydrocarbons that we all know are out there" are very well studied by now and FF and SF have naturally been thinking about them, good lads and little rascals that ye are to a girly, and so have I and I and "us":-
Let´s begin with part of a press statement from Ireland´s ministry of the marine last year, (27 October 2002)
"Mr. John Browne T.D., the Minister of State for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, today said the encouraging results from drilling in the Rockall basin underlined the exploration potential off the Irish coast."..."Minister Browne said Enterprise Energy Ireland’s (EEI) announcement on the Rockall results from their deep water ‘Dooish’ exploration well was very welcome news. He was speaking after receiving a briefing from officials from the Department’s Petroleum Affairs Division."....."The Minister declared: “While it is too early to judge their economic significance, the results clearly demonstrate the presence of a working petroleum system and, as such, have profound implications for the future exploration of frontier areas offshore Ireland. My Department has long held that there was ‘real’ exploration potential within these frontier areas and the latest news further vindicates this view.”......!!
!!......"The Minister went on: “The well has penetrated a substantial column of hydrocarbons. However, before the size of the accumulation or the possibility for any commercial development can be assessed, a considerable amount of analysis of existing data together with much further appraisal work on the prospect will be required. It is expected that appraisal operations will resume at the earliest possible opportunity during the drilling season in 2003.”
... €€€€ ......"Enterprise Energy Ireland has carried out an evaluation programme, the Minister said. “All aspects connected with the positioning, drilling and evaluation of the well require my approval, and under the terms of the licence, the operator is obliged to lodge all technical data related to the well with my Department. I am pleased to say that Enterprise Energy Ireland is fully complying with their obligations. Specialists from the Petroleum Affairs Division of the Department have closely monitored the drilling and formation evaluation programmes since the well was initially drilled and are continuing to analyse the large volumes of data generated.” ...........$$$$..........."Minister Browne added: “There are challenges imposed by extreme water depths. We understand that to-date the well has cost more then €20 million. I would strongly encourage other exploration companies to renew their commitment and resolve to pursue hydrocarbon exploration opportunities in Ireland.”
When I return to the shores of my patria,
I will bring my industry craft and enthusiasm
to assist "other exploration companies to renew their commitment and resolve to pursue hydrocarbon exploration opportunities in Ireland".
- will I bollox.
keep an eye on them.
How do you justify postering over SP posters with offensive material in which you called David Murphy, the SP and the thousands of people who have not paid the tax 'Fucking Scrounging Bastards'. Do you think that it is right that the SP noticeboard be defaced? How would you feel if the FF noticeboard was defaced and FF posters were covered and ripped down?
Another question does the Green Party support your actions? I wouldn't think that they do.
Why can't you make you comments and opinions known in a more constructive way.
firstly it said "miserable freeloading bastards", not "fucking scrounging bastards".
i admit now that the word 'bastards' was a bit strong.
secondly, the SP noticebaord was not defaced. There is no official SP noticeboard, just an empty glass thing that you have left a poster in. If this was the official SP noticeboard, then it would be wrong, i agree.
and i dont justify postering over a few SP posters, if i had known at the time it was illegal i would not of done it.
oh and about insults, i and many people are sick of being called right-wing bastards, and in my case i dont regard myself as being right-wing. all i think is that if everywhere else in the country has to pay the bin charges, then dublin people should as well. after all , wouldnt a socialist believe in that?
after a UCD socialist member confronted me on this matter outside the science block, i agreed to take down the posters. which i did within an hour, and as far as i know i got all the posters off. are you happy now?
this was meant to be a protest, but not a very serious protest. after all, it had oscar the grouch on it didnt it!!!!!
"Nopw Magneto ANSWER the questions raised on the other thread. Justify your parties position on Shannon, the state, Bin Tax, Partnership, Nice, the USI..."
What about USI? Surely there's only one issue here, as it is with any trade union - reclaiming it from the right.
If people are talking about last year's USI referendum in UCD, move on! That was last year. if there were more questions asked about how to reclaim USI and less about the LP's position on an old issue like this then students would be better off.
So disappointing to see the far left again foscusing on the wrong issues. Start focusing on next year's USI elections, not last year's stories!
what the hell has the Green Party have 2do with this!!!!! first it was FF, now Green Party!!!
yet another example of how you want to turn this into a political issue.
im sure the green party would not agree, but just because i helped my friend in the green party put up his posters doesnt mean he agrees with me!!!!! do u think if i actually felt that ALL supporters of the bin tax were what was said on the poster, would i be helping a guy in the Green Party put up his posters?!!!!
"secondly, the SP noticebaord was not defaced. "
It was, there is evidence.
"There is no official SP noticeboard, just an empty glass thing that you have left a poster in. If this was the official SP noticeboard, then it would be wrong, i agree."
There is an official SP noticeboard. Every society has a noticeboard which are covered with glass to stop people like yourself doing what you did. It was not empty at the time you wrecked it. It had notices of meetings and activities, info on the party and a few pictures. There was also information about the SU David Murphy campaign.
"and i dont justify postering over a few SP posters, if i had known at the time it was illegal i would not of done it."
So you only think its wrong because you might get in trouble over it? Can you not see that it is simply wrong regardless of the rules? Do you not think that the SP have the right to put up posters?
Regardless of the rights or wrongs of defacing SP posters and the noticeboard or your links to FF or the GP to put up posters saying certain easily identifiable students are 'freeloading bastards' is clearly against the 'dignity and respect' policy of the college. Everyone that saw that poster knew that it was aimed at David Murphy who was in prison at the time. This applies to all students not just societies or staff.
Shane for your info the Greens support the bin tax. You are the one that said a 'Green Party representative' helped you put up the posters. Clearly this guy supports the sentiment of what was in the poster.
I would be very surprised if anyone else in the UCD Greens support you or this 'representative' . I know most of their committee and they would never stoop to such levels.
you're absolutely right, magneto and some of the syers seem to think we are goldfish (two second memories!). Moving on is a good idea!
i didint say he put up my posters, i said i helped him put up his posters!!!!!!!
Lies lies lies.
I am a SP supporter and I'm a student in UCD. I was talking to a SP member about this issue of an FF member putting up posters against 'scrounging bastards'
I understand that this issue is before the Registrar as this student (who is named in the complaint) is in violation of the Student Code and the University's policy on Dignity and Respect. I also understand the actions of this individual will be brought up with FF in UCD through the office of the Societies' Officer.
As this is an issue before the Registrar (who has legal jurisdiction under the Universities Act). The named student will be duely contacted by the Registrar's office and will have his chance to put his defence forward. I think it would be inapproriate for further debate on this forum.
Personally I don't really see it as a very big issue
This debate has been had before, I couldn't get find it in the search engine but there is a copy on this site below
http://socialistyouth.myikonboard.com/viewthread.php?threadid=101.
Good grief, I go for a couple of hours and this is the result. Everyone involved should have their ISP's blocked from Indymedia for an hour to allow calm to settle in.
Then, we can come back and debate the most important issue that faces the Left in Ireland today, no capitalism, or the war, or the European Treaty, but why my party is fucking brilliant and the rest of youse are reformist cowardly neo-cons.
And apologies for dstracting any of the children from the fascinating debate on posters in UCD... Interesting to read Browne's comments, but fact remains that the Department's PAB does not have an independent verification process. It is totally dependent on the information supplied by the companies. That is why Shell have gotten away with sitting on Corrib since 1996. They will open it up when it suits their global planning. As for the benefits. There will be little or none. Browne mentioned up to 80 million in tax from the Seven Heads. Even if that was to be the case - and no doubt much of it will be written off - it is a platry sum compared to the value of what Ramco controls, at the very least 300 billion cubic feet of gas - enough to supply over 10% of the state's requirements. Fact is, as Ferris points out, the state has given a potentially huge source of revenue and economic growth away. In Nigeria, Shell had to murder Ken Saro Wiwa. They obviously have a lot more efficient way of getting their way here. But then again you only have to look at the calibre of the Ministers they have had to deal with, and I will merely mention Ray Burke ....
Good going Matt. Keeping all these lunatics busy. Has to be a major contribution to society.
Well worth a pint and a wee flutter. However the bearded one probably wouldn't be too impressed if he knew what u spent ur time at.
Yes, Matt irlgov is a bit vague about the revenue potential from Irish deep sea Oil and Gas, they seem to repeat the mantra "there is no state involvement", and seem content to not reduce the 25% multi-nat-corporation tax level. I don't forecast this revenue coming "online" in the next two years, but I think it is really about time the "left" and the "alternatives" started thinking about the implications of these deep sea operations.
Irlgov certainly have, they have built slowly in the hands of what seem to be idiots and lackeys a very evasive and ecologically spun approach.
Here is a little map of the areas in question, the reader will _note_ that the most interesting deep sea finds are on the "frontier" of Irish waters. Ireland would only be able to make a profit if the oil went ashore in Irish waters or was pipelined through Irish waters.
This whole subject will be the focus of a forthcoming Sunday Papers special together with a competition to win your very own "eco-friendly deep sea Irish frontier exploration licence complete with off shore bank account, non resident workforce and after careful accountancy about 18.2% kick back"....."and all on a collective affordable budget of 120,000euro a square five km".
currach ola an mhara aisriallai aniriallai ag iascearacht....tiocfaidh ár ola¿?¿?
From Dáil record
Mr. J. Higgins: Yesterday's budget oozed cynicism from every paragraph and page. Much has been made of the decentralisation of public services. I do not wish to deal with that except to warn the good people in the regions and rural communities that this is one bog I suspect will be drained repeatedly in words over the next few years and that, in the end, most of the water will probably still be lodged in Dublin city.
The budget was the most recent instalment in the programme of the Government which began with the publication of the Book of Estimates a few weeks ago and the provision therein for stealth taxes together with savage cuts in some key areas of expenditure. The budget and Estimates are a continuation of the policy adopted by the Government since first coming to power six and a half years ago, namely, to facilitate the transfer of wealth from working people and working class communities to speculators, bankers and big business.
I noted how in his speech the Taoiseach was defensive about his Government being described as right-wing. He tried to defend it from that charge. Some of his learned advisers should inform him that one of the major criteria for judging the character of a Government, whether it is right, centre or left, is the manner in which it presides over the division of wealth in society. The truth is that no Government in the history of the State - and there have been some very right-wing Governments - has presided over such a shift of wealth from working people to the wealthy, capitalists and financiers.
All one need do is study the housing market where the Government stood back and allowed an unrestrained orgy of speculation, profiteering and even racketeering by landowners, developers and financiers. The most basic human need for shelter was seen and allowed to be used as an opportunity to enrich them. In doing so, young people were enslaved to mortgage payments and all that goes with it for 20 or 30 years of their lives so that there could be a continuation of profits going to bankers, developers and speculators. At the same time the Government slashes the taxes on speculators by 50%, but there is not one iota of support in the budget for those attempting to buy a home for the first time.
This is a Government that also endorses an ongoing weekly and monthly robbery of tenants by private landlords, many of whom are every bit as greedy as their landed counterparts in 19th century Ireland. Despite this, the Government yesterday raised a further €243 million in extra taxes on petrol and cigarettes, a burden which will mainly fall on ordinary working people, including those trapped in poverty.
The reduction in corporation tax for big business in the last two budgets, which makes it the lowest in Europe, will hand back to the major corporations a massive €634 million every year from now on. The multinational corporations have been given a further concession in the budget as if they did not have enough profits already. It is a subject with which the media no longer deal. Last year the multinationals sent out of this country €15.25 billion in profits earned by the labour and the brains of Irish workers, and the figure for repatriated profits for the year before was €15.03 billion. Despite this, there is yet another concession to this sector.
At the same time the Government has cruelly, deliberately and cold-bloodedly slashed €58 million in social welfare cuts from the hardest hit sections of the community. This is an incredible situation where landlords and developers have created a burning accommodation crisis and the Government hits their victims who cannot put a roof over their heads and will now be denied a roof if they cannot demonstrate that they have been six months in rented accommodation.
The cuts in community employment schemes threaten to rip apart an important part of the social fabric of our community as services in the community for children, young people and the disabled come under pressure. The naive saw a slight flicker of hope that the community employment schemes might be safeguarded when the Fianna Fáil backbenchers began to roar like lions, but at one crack of the whip, the pride of lions was transformed into a scattering of whimpering mice with not even a bit of imitation cheese to show for their trouble.
The people are subjected to cuts and stealth taxes while the prize millionaire stallions prance around their exercise yards on the plains of County Kildare. No doubt when their tax-free millionaire stud farm owners clatter over the Minister for Finance's mansion in their helicopters, they will tip their caps to this man who has yet again let them off the hook.
However, a working class woman in west Dublin or anywhere else who drags herself from her bed in the dark on a winter morning to clean offices and other buildings to put bread on the table for her family is reckoned for every penny in taxation.
A continuing scandal is that the millionaire and billionaire tax exiles are no doubt jetting off to their luxury hideaways in Bermuda, Monaco and other places this weekend-----
Mr. F. McGrath: Donegal.
Mary Coughlan: We are humble people in Donegal.
Mr. J. Higgins: -----well pleased that their lobbying has again saved them from being obliged to pay their proper share of taxation. They are allowed to continue to legally avoid payment into the social fund for services, to the tune of tens of millions of euro.
There has not been much comment on whether the Minister for Finance disturbed the glamorous world of the super-wealthy rock stars, celebrities and impresarios.
Mary Coughlan: Do not tell me the Deputy never bought a CD in his life.
Mr. J. Higgins: While I fully endorse the support of struggling artists, poets and writers, it is not taxation justice to treat multimillionaire Bono and his fellow music industry millionaires in the same way as one might treat poor Paddy Kavanagh shuffling along Raglan Road composing his poetry.
Deputies: Hear, hear.
Mr. J. Higgins: The millions that could be got from this protected sector of millionaires, for example, would easily finance the €4.2 million needed immediately to open the new wing of Blanchardstown Hospital. Incredibly, it lies idle while staff and patients continue to dwell in the most disgraceful conditions in the old hospital.
Mary Coughlan: Who built it? It was not the Deputy.
Mr. J. Higgins: This is a Government replete with hypocrisy and double standards. This autumn it persecuted the most decent and most compliant taxpayers for their opposition to the Government's bin tax. This best illustrates the dishonesty of taxation by stealth. This is a Government which, through its gardaí, courts and jails, tried to break a movement of ordinary people for taxation justice. It will certainly not succeed in doing so.
On pensions, the extension of the retirement age of public sector workers to 65 years, irrespective of the amount of time they have served, is reactionary in the extreme.
Mary Coughlan: Imagine the Deputy will be here until he is 65.
Mr. J. Higgins: Some of the most significant struggles of working people over the past 150 years have been for the reduction of the length of the working day, working week and working year, yet with the onslaught of neoliberalism and globalisation we see, all over Europe, an attack on-----
Mary Coughlan: The Deputy will have to eat his philosophy some day.
Mr. J. Higgins: -----the rights of working people in the form of an attack on their pensions.
Mr. F. McGrath: Hear, hear.
Mr. J. Higgins: All over Europe, tens of millions of working people are mobilising in opposition to that.
(Interruptions)
Mr. J. Higgins: I hope that even the trade union leaders, with whom the Government is, unfortunately, blessed, will at least do the honourable thing in this regard and defend gains that have been hard won by working people over the past 150 years.
Mr. N. Ahern: The workers are asking for it.
Mr. J. Higgins: Ordinary people will have an opportunity in the coming months, however, to show the Government what they really think. I hope they will take the opportunity to drive from the council chambers and the European Parliament the representatives of Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats who preside over this regime of the rich, which operates for the rich
Mary Coughlan: The Deputy's philosophy is inspired by hate.
Mr. J. Higgins: Mar focal scoir, is cáinaiséis chiniciúil amach is amach í seo. Don fhíor-cháinaisnéis a fheiceáil caithfimid na Meastcháin a nochtadh cúpla seachtain ó shin a chur san áireamh. Caithfear na ciorraithe fíochmhara sa chóras leasa shóisialaí a chur san áireamh, ciorraithe a ghoileann orthu siúd atá bocht agus atá ar phá íseal, na ciorraithe sna scéimeanna fostaíochta phobal a dhéanfaidh creach ar láithreacha pobail timpeall na tíre ina bhfuil lonnaithe imeachtaí fíor-thábhachtacha don phobal, go minic na haon áiseanna atá i gceanntracha lucht oibre. Caithfear a chur san áireamh na cánacha faoi cheilt atá á ngearradh gach seachtain ar ghnáthdhaoine. Polasaí frithghníomhach atá i bpolasaí an Rialtais frithghníomhaigh-----
Mary Coughlan: Síleann an Teachta go bhfuil achan rud saor in aisce.
Mr. J. Higgins: -----agus tá súil againn go mbeimid in ann á chaitheamh amach chomh tapaidh agus is féidir ar mhaithe le gnáthdhaoine na tíre agus ar mhaithe leis an tír seo.
got it up to the part where they retreat into the native ranting, what they say?
Dunno. I kept falling asleep whenever I got one-third of the way through Mary Coughlan's contributions. She does go on and on, so you got further through it than I did.
Did you ever hear her speak? She always manages to sound like someone who has just had a lobotomy.
I'm afraid my grasp of Gaelic is a sad reflection on the quality of the Irish educational system, I've actually forgotten more of it than I originally learned (if that's possible) so I'm not able to help you with the translation.